04 TerraCycle: Eliminating the Idea of Waste w/ Joy Nemerson

Mira Rubin: Welcome everybody to Sustainability Now. Technologies and Paradigms to Shape a World that Works. I'm your host, Mira Rubin. I'm delighted to welcome Joy Nemerson. Joy is the Strategic Partnership Manager for the Zero Waste Boxes Program at TerraCycle. TerraCycle is a global organization that's headquartered in Trenton, New Jersey that is eliminating the idea of waste by recycling non-recyclables. Joy, welcome. We're delighted to have you here. Thanks so much for being with us.

Joy Nemerson: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to tell more people about TerraCycle.

Mira: Me too. Me too. How about if we start out with that. Give us some background for folks that don't know what TerraCycle is.

Joy: Of course. TerraCycle is actually about 15 years old. People often think we're a startup but we've been around for a while. We started actually as a fertilizer company. Our CEO started bottling worm poop in used soda bottles. Once he figured out that he could get people to send him waste and TerraCycle got formed into what it is today. Really what we do is we take non-recyclable waste and recycle it. We work with friends, individuals, companies big and small, everyone around the block to really help them identify what they're sending to landfill and how we can keep it out and recycle it.

Mira: You're the Strategic Partnership Manager-

Joy: Yes.

Mira: - for the Zero Waste Box Program? Let's talk about what Zero Waste Boxes are.

Joy: I'd love to.

Mira: Okay great. [laughs]

Joy: The Zero Waste Box is a box that you purchase on our website or through our lovely sales team. Essentially, what it is, it allows you to really identify a specific waste stream or a category of waste streams that you have in your home, office, manufacturing facility, what have you. Then it has a pre-effect shipping label on the back. Once it is full of gloves, or gum, or pens or anything else you can just pop it to your nearest FedEx and then shoot it back to use and we deal with it. Kind of like the world's most magical trash can.

Mira: [laughs] That's great. Well in looking at the TerraCycle site it was apparent that you have a huge variety of Zero Waste Boxes.

Joy: Yes.

Mira: What makes the different categories? Why do you divide them up into all these different categories?

Joy: The real reason for having so many different boxes is that the more specific you can be with the waste, the lower the price of the box will be. If you are just collecting chip bags and snack wrappers then you should get just that box. But, we know that people don't always have the manpower or the time to actually separate out all the different wastes so we actually have category boxes. For example, we have the Kitchen Box that allows you to recycle anything in your kitchen. From broken forks to any plastic packaging that comes with food to trash bags and anything like that. We really do what we can to make it as easy as possible for anyone to really go above and beyond for the planet with this kind of kookie program that we have.

Mira: Well it's way beyond kookie. [laughter]

Mira: It's pretty revolutionary actually. I think the idea of waste- I just want to talk about that for a second. One of the things that's abundantly clear to us is that in order for there to be a change on the planet there really needs to be a change of paradigm. If you're talking about the “idea of waste” let's dig into that a little bit.

Joy: What we say all the time here is that waste is a human concept. In nature, there's no such thing as waste. Everything is disposed of and decomposed and then reborn in its own time and way. Lucky for us, we developed these products that last forever, which can be great if you need a water bottle forever, but it's not so great when you're done with that water bottle and you can't really use it anymore. What TerraCycle is trying to do is really meet consumers where they are. Currently, we have all this plastic waste. It's almost unavoidable sometimes. We are providing the option to keep that out of landfills. Obviously, we know that this is a short-term solution. We are developing ways that will potentially change the way consumers use products with durable packaging or whatever the next step for humanity is. Where we are currently is this very disposable world. We try and keep that as well as we can and really create the raw materials that can be used in a place of virgin materials. Hopefully, we won't even have to extract more resources and things like that.

Mira: What actually happens to the contents of these boxes when they come back to TerraCycle?

Joy: That's a great question. It really does depend what the waste stream is. Let's use the example of a K-cup or coffee capsule. Really popular item and used in a lot of homes and offices. When we receive the box, it will come to our warehouse in New Jersey. Then once we have a truckload of the material we'll send it to a recycler. The recycler will empty all the boxes, shred the material and then separate the actual coffee. Typically, they have an aluminum top and then it will be a plastic bottom. Obviously different brands have different compositions. By separating all those materials, it makes it a lot easier for us to turn it into various raw materials. Once we have the plastic pellet from the actual K-cup or coffee capsule then we can sell that to manufacturers to use in the place of virgin materials. A lot of what that becomes is plastic lumber products that's used in park benches, picnic tables, playgrounds. Really outside durable stuff.

Mira: You send the content to the recyclers. The recyclers send the processed product back to you and you sell that?

Joy: Essentially when we send our material to the recyclers we're in control of that time and that material. Yes, it is a little bit of moving around. We don't have our own machinery just because we recycle so many different things. We develop the processes with our in-house R&D team to actually recycle diapers, cigarette butts, gum. Then we actually work with other recyclers to actually process it.

Mira: How do you identify these other recyclers if these are products that aren't typically recycled?

Joy: It's a good question. We have a whole team at TerraCycle that's devoted to finding these recycling partners. As you can imagine when people meet us they're like, "Wait, but how?" The "How" is really important. We have a lot of people dedicated to figuring out who can do it and move it to the next step.

Mira: You're a global company?

Joy: Yes.

Mira: How many countries are you in now?

Joy: We're in 22 countries globally which is pretty exciting. People don't realize that.

Mira: Amazing.

Joy: I always say probably where you are next, TerraCycle will be there too. People often ask if we ship waste. Sometimes they ask if we ship waste to China. The answer is no. We don't ship waste across any country borders. If you're collecting in France it will be processed in France.

Mira: Then within each country, you need to identify the processors, right?

Joy: Yes, exactly. There are a lot of moving pieces at TerraCycle but what I find so compelling about us is that we make it so easy for the consumer. If you buy a Zero Waste Box all you have to do is purchase it and send it back. Then we kind of figure out the rest. It can be a tricky job, but it certainly makes a lot of impact. When we a have the number of collectors that we do which is hundreds of thousands across the world, doing these little actions, it really makes a big difference and keeps a lot of waste out of landfills.

Mira: You're also working with a lot of manufacturers too, right?

Joy: Yes. One of the big programs for the Zero Waste Box is actually recycling safety equipment and gloves. If you think about it, it’s a really important waste stream. People have to use gloves, especially in the food industry, if you're working at a factory. They're also highly disposable. Once you're done, you can put it in the Zero Waste Box and we'll take it and keep it out of a landfill. [laughs]

Mira: Procter & Gamble has a big initiative that you guys are working together with them, right?

Joy: Yes. It's a really exciting program. P&G has partnered with TerraCycle and Suez to collect actually ocean plastic through organizations across the world. Then we can actually take that plastic and turn it into this shampoo bottle which is beautiful and also recyclable. It's the first product to be made from ocean plastic that is also recyclable which was a really important step for them and obviously, for us too.

Mira: For sure. How do people find out about these kinds of initiatives and how to get involved in them?

Joy: If you head over the terracycle.com and you look at our free programs the P&G Beach Plastics Program will be there.

Mira: Great. The Beach Plastics Program, is that international?

Joy: Yes. It is an international program just because we need to collect a lot of beach plastic right? One for the planet but two to actually create this product. You would organize a beach clean up. Get a pallet bag from us which is like a really big bag. Collect rigid plastic from beaches and then send it to us.

Mira: Beautiful. What other initiatives are you running at TerraCycle that you'd like to share with other folks?

Joy: Man, there are so many.

Mira: [laughs]

Joy: TerraCycle is always partnering with new brands to create free recycling programs for various products. One of the new really exciting launches that we just had was actually with Hasbro. You can send back any Hasbro toy to TerraCycle once it has been played with to its life's extent and then we'll recycle it. Those plastics are typically pretty intense, pretty hard plastics to deal with in a regular MR for a municipality. It's a really exciting program for us and for Hasbro, educating kids, especially when they're so young, on recycling and how to treat the planet and really just the extended the life of products is I think really important and really exciting.

Mira: How would people send those toys back to you?

Joy: Yes. For our sponsored programs, they are all listed on our website. You just have to sign up and then you can download the shipping label. So, you just fill up a box and then send it to us. What's really awesome about those sponsored programs is that for every pound of waste you send in, you can receive points and those points can actually be redeemed for donations to schools and non-profits, which is-- Obviously, you're doing this amazing thing for the planet but then, you're also using it either as a fundraising tool for a school or really donating to charities and organizations that you're really aligned with personally. It's a big thing and it's really awesome that we have had so many collectors involve.

Mira: No joke.

Joy: [laughs]

Mira: That's powerful. You're going pretty much top to bottom which is phenomenal. Give us the history. You said that it started with worm poop in a bottle. [laughs] Let's get a little bit more deeply into the history for TerraCycle.

Joy: Sure. Tom Szaky, our CEO went to Princeton University, which I think is why we're probably still in New Jersey, and just wanted to create the best fertilizer he could. He really thought that packaging was going to be a big cost, right? So, using this packaging that was perfectly fine, this used soda bottle would be a great idea. He actually set up licensing agreements with PepsiCo and Coca-Cola. He says he's the only one in the world that's done this to use their soda bottles. Those products were sold all over the country and then he realized what he really liked about that was that he was using waste. We then set up a variety of other programs with other brands, but we used to do a lot more of what we call upcycling. Upcycling is when you take a product and you're not changing its material composition, but you're turning it into something new. A great example of this was we partnered with Capri Sun to make backpacks and tote bags out of the juice pouches, which is awesome, and that program went on for quite a while. But then, once we had developed all these promotional products for these brands, we kind of took a step back and said, "How sustainable is this, is this really what we should be doing?" That's kind of when we got into more of the recycling because it's great to take waste materials and turn them into new things. Upcycling is wonderful and can create beautiful things, but what we found with the number of collectors that we have is that recycling actually makes a little bit more sense, right? A tote bag is, at some point, disposable, whereas actually developing a raw material from that waste is better and allows people to actually take those plastics that were brand new out of their supply chain so that they can use these recovered materials instead.

Mira: You and I have had a prior conversation. You talked about wishful recycling.

Joy: Yes, one of my favorite topics.

Mira: Please.

Joy: Yes. Essentially, and this is my biggest discovery while working at TerraCycle is, no one really teaches you how to recycle. In schools, you talk about recycling and you talk about how important it is, but I think, especially in the US where it's different based on city lines or even in the middle of the city, it can be different on one side than the other, it can be a really confusing process. Sometimes, people will put things like K-cups in their recycling bin, thinking that they'll be recycled. They even go through the process of emptying them out, cleaning them out, putting it in their recycle bin. What a lot of people don't know is that black plastic actually isn't recyclable. So if you're putting a yogurt lid that has a recycling symbol on it in your recycling bin, it's probably not going to be recycled, just because the optical sorters that they use at these recycling facilities can't see black because they blend in with the belt. That's one huge thing. Another thing is number six plastics. Some cities will take one through six, some will take one through seven, some will just take one, four and five, so it's really important to look up where you are and to see what will be accepted. Number six is a pretty common one that a lot of municipalities don't take. We actually have a program with Solo that would allow anyone to download a shipping label similar to the Hasbro program, all of our free programs, and then collect and send us back all of that number six plastic cups.

Mira: Do you guys have a newsletter or some kind of ongoing educational program that can make people aware?

Joy: Yes, we certainly do have a newsletter. You can sign up on terracycle.com and it will let you know about all the new and exciting things that TerraCycle is doing but also some general recycling facts and knowledge.

Mira: One of the things that you mentioned is chip bags and the thing that distinguishes chip bags is that it's a laminated plastic where part of it is metallic and part of it is plastic, right?

Joy: Yes.

Mira: I didn't know before our conversation that they were not recyclable and I have a cat and I give her this food that comes in a plastic container and the top peels off and I have always washed it out and thrown it in the recycle, and I realized that the lid part, the plastic with the metal on it is not recyclable, so I was tainting the recycle by leaving that lid on and now every time I tear one off and put it in the trash, I'm thinking, "Uh-oh, I need to get a TerraCycle box."

Joy: Yes, please, please. Yeh, a lot of people do that and it's by no fault of yours. How would you know? That's really what it comes down is just the lack of education and I think brands that we work with are really saying like, "Hey, we want to help," and they really take responsibility. A great example of that is we work with L'Oreal to recycle all beauty care waste, not just L'Oreal products but any beauty care waste across the category. If you are putting your shampoo bottle or your lotion bottle in the recycling bin, it might not be getting recycled so check that out and if you can't actually recycle it locally, then you should check out the L'Oreal program because it's important and I have a lot of colleagues at different waste management facilities, and they like TerraCycle because we actually help them make their recycling streams cleaner and that's really what we're trying to do.

Mira: You said that these materials are getting recycled, the plastics, into pellet type plastics that then create new products.

Joy: Yes.

Mira: How many times can something be recycled?

Joy: It really depends on the material. A common fact is that aluminum is infinitely recyclable, glass is infinitely recyclable. When you start collecting plastics, it's pretty tough because when we recycle them, we combine them, so we aren't necessarily creating a number four plastic from a number four bottle. It might be number four to a number seven. It really depends and what's so fascinating about the sustainable industry is that new innovations are coming out all the time. TerraCycle is old news at this point. It's cool what we do, but what about this mushroom packaging that you can buy and all this other stuff? As I'm sure you know, and your listeners know, always be on the lookout for new things because we don't want to create waste and when you have to use TerraCycle box, purchase it, but when you can purchase materials that are naked packaging or any of those other cool packagings that actually don't go to a landfill then do that.

Mira: How about resources that you might recommend to folks? Books? Apps?

Joy: Yes, one app that I'm really reallycurrently obsessed with is called Literati. I met the founder at a conference and basically what it is is it's a database that allows consumers like you and I to go on the street and whenever we see a piece of trash, take a picture of it and log it. Then what--

Mira: Throw it away. [laughs]

Joy: Pick it up, throw it away. Take a picture. Pick it up. Throw it away. What he does is he then uses that data to work with companies. Let's say there's a fast food company that has a shop on the corner. We see their sauce packets all around. Everyone’s taking pictures You say, "Hey, why don't you ask people if they want sauce because they're throwing it on the ground.'' To have that data to back it up can help both companies and consumers make those logical decisions as to, “Do I need this? Where will it end up?” is a really, really cool one and it's just creating a community around wastes. So what could be cooler than that?

Mira: Really so much of this is about awareness. Now, since our conversation, every time I'm putting something in the trash, I'm aware just like, "Oh, boy," and I’ve got to do something different and the awareness is encouraging me just to be shifting behaviors.

Joy: Yes, absolutely. My parents have a Zero Waste Box, thanks, mom and dad. My mom is always so shocked when they fill it up because you're just consuming this plastic and these things that you don't even realize sometimes. The newspaper comes in a plastic sleeve. They get two newspapers a day. That alone is pretty significant. It is just about taking a step back evaluating what you're doing and then making the steps that make sense for you.

Mira: That just brings to mind actually the plastic bags that we get at the grocery store that our vegetables come in or any number of other things are wrapped in plastic. I know that a number of supermarkets have a plastic bag recycling, can we put other kinds of plastic bags in there and still have it be recyclable?

Joy: Yes, I would ask. I would ask. I'm sure with some you can, with some you probably can't. I think those grocery stores are working with local recyclers to collect it because once there is actually a significant amount then the recyclers can take it much easier than they can a single plastic bag or a single plastic film. I would certainly ask and then if they don't know have them ask the recycler because if you can be bringing these films to your grocery store, that's it a really great option.

Mira: For sure, how about the Plastic Bag, Grocery Bag, Zero Waste Box that you guys have, can we put that stuff in there?

Joy: We have a box, it's my favorite box called Plastic Packaging which allows you to put any film, any rigid plastic all into one box. It's a great box, great option and will just kind of inspire you to take a look at how you're consuming and what you can do to lower your own personal footprint.

Mira: Now the boxes are pretty pricey, just to warn anybody that is going to check it on the website. You're looking at… What's the least expensive box?

Joy: The boxes range from about $50 to about $350.

Mira: They are also different sizes?

Joy: Yes, we have three different sizes and as I mentioned before, knowing your waste is really going to bring the cost down because the more things you put in one box the more expensive it will be because we have to account for the manual separation that we have to do. The boxes are expensive but the reason why they are so expensive is because the material that we're using are so [laughs] bad. These materials are not easy to recycle. If we're talking about the recycling industry as a whole that's the reason why things are being non-recyclable because the economics behind it doesn't make sense for a local municipality to take it. Something like a chip bag requires like a very intense amount of shredding, sorting, there's grease, there's crumbs, it's not easy and it's not cheap. I think we're so used to buying products that are cheap but we don't really think about the full life cycle of that product. If you account for the thousand years that your chip bag will be sitting in the landfill, then maybe it's a little bit more expensive. Another good thing about the Zero Waste Box is that they hold a lot, especially for flat and flexible items, you could put a lot in that box. If you have any questions about how many can fit in each box, which we get a lot, and you can certainly reach out to our customer service team and they will help you figure out what size and which box makes more sense for you.

Mira: There is something really beautiful about taking into consideration the waste cycle as part of the food cost, as we start becoming more conscious of the ramifications of certain purchases and certain food choices, and certain product choices. I think it shifts behaviors just because of that awareness, it's profound.

Joy: Yes absolutely. It's pretty crazy when you start to actually think about it and actively make your choices.

Mira: It really is. I think that so much of what we do, we do because we are unaware. I think the education piece is huge. You guys have a bunch of outreach opportunities too, right? Through your sponsorship programs, it's an outreach of sorts, yes?

Joy: Yes, a great thing about the free recycling programs is that a lot of schools actually do participate because they can use it as a fundraising tool which allows them to really dive into recycling as a curriculum. Why are certain things recyclable? What's recyclable here? How can we change it, what can we do to lower students' impact and especially at the school? In that regard certainly lots of materials around that. Where I work a lot is in offices and manufacturing facilities as well, but even the act of your company getting behind this initiative to say, '"Hey, we realize that we all have an impact. Let's work together to go above and beyond for the planet." The moral boost, the employee engagement just around that, people don't believe it but it really is such a valuable tool to really get people talking. If my parents can do it and really start to think about it then certainly anyone, especially in a structured environment can do it as well.

Mira: You mentioned curriculum in schools, do you guys have any kind of foundation curriculum or education materials that you make available?

Joy: Yes. Through our partnership with Pepsico, we actually have a whole lesson plans, whole class activities that you can download and are available for you. The Pepsico program is called Recycle Rally, is available for anyone K through 12. It really allows teachers to have these easy digestible resources to teach about recycling, you know exactly what we're talking about. I say the world needs more recycling education. Well, we're providing it through that partnership so that is a really awesome one.

Mira: Yes, that powerful and also for the folks that are homeschooling to be able to have that curriculum available. For our listeners, we're going to have links available for any resources we're talking about on the podcast page on our website at sustainabilitynow.global. You will be able to tap into all these resources that we're discussing in one place and connect over with TerraCycle. How about you Joy? Tell us a little bit about your journey to sustainability here?

Joy: Sure. What I say is sustainability is in my blood and why that is, is because my mom is actually a professor of industrial ecology and environmental management. As a little kid when we would travel for her work when she was studying factories and how they can be more efficient and things like that, we would always go on factory tours wherever we went. I kind of grew up with this is slightly different than most people think a holistic mindset. I see where the products are made and how they get to your door. I think growing up with that was really impactful. Then personally I have been studying Chinese for most of my life and has spent a significant amount of time in China which is a wonderful place. I have been studying it for over 10 years and I miss it every day. Being there you can truly feel the human impact on the environment. Breathing it in every day it;s hard to not think about it. I think that had also really set me on my journey for what I currently do now, at TerraCycle which is why we are doing this and how can we make it easier to stop. It's been a pretty awesome time at TerraCycle. I have been here for two years and I get to work specifically with events, helping them go zero waste. I help sort trash in the back of arenas and convention centers and really see what people are throwing away which is another really fascinating thing. I get to help them tell their sustainability story, It's a pretty awesome thing to say you diverted 99% waste diversion which is what we did at the Green Biz Conference this past year. Then we just went to Sustainable Brands in Vancouver so hopefully, they will have equally high numbers. Then I also really get to work on the product which is the Zero Waste Box, helping people understand really the magic of what it is and how they can best use it in their homes and communities. So that's me.

Mira: That's wonderful, it's a perfect fit, it sounds like you found your home in the right place. Is there anything that you would like to leave us with today, pointers on what we can do to be better planetary citizens. Advice?

Joy: It's a lot of we've been talking about and what we talked about in our first conversation. It's all about awareness and education. I think a lot of things in life kind of boil down to awareness and education and recycling is no different. Just making yourself really in tune with what your community is doing for recycling then if you can help them increase that in any way, do that but it is really important to get a grip of what is actually happening, Then how you can adjust your habits to fit what's going on.

Mira: Beautiful. Well, Joy, I just want to say thank you so much for being with us today.

Joy: Thank you so much for having me. It really means a lot and if anyone needs anything or has any questions on Terracycle just --

Mira: Actually before we say goodbye, there may be folks listening who are manufacturers or who want to be involved in some capacity in recycling and with TerraCycle. They just contact TerraCycle, or how does that work?

Joy: Yes, I can give you a link that you can put in the--

Mira: Podcast notes.

Joy: In the podcast notes.

Mira: Now, I'm going to put you on the spot because when we talked earlier you said that for listeners, you would be able to offer a special discount on the boxes.

Joy: Yes, absolutely. If you use the discount code "SUSTAINABILITYNOW", you'll get 15% off your whole purchase.

Mira: That's beautiful and is there any time limitation on that or are we good--?

Joy: I think it will expire at the end of the year. You have whole year, or half a year to use that code and please do. What I keep saying and what we keep saying is, once you kind of start to monitor your habits and really take a step back, look what you're putting in your box, then you can stop buying the box because you won't need it anymore.

Mira: [laughs]

Joy: But until then, yes, 15% off of with the "sustainabilitynow" code.

Mira: Thank you so much.

Joy: Of course.

Mira: This is great. I hope that everyone enjoyed it. Thank you to our listeners. You're the ones that are taking action in the world to make a change and thank you to our producer, Scott Bille. And that's it for today. I'm your host, Mira Rubin. Until next time, live your best life, love the world around you and together we can save the world.